Ralph welcomes Rev. Dr. Donald Wagner, National Program Director of Friends of Sabeel—North America, to discuss the ongoing violence in Palestine, the influence that Christian Zionists have on America's Israel policy, and the religious organizations that have refused to collaborate with Israel's modern-day Crusader State. Plus, Ralph answers some listener questions and questions from the RNRH team.
Christian Zionism and Zionism share many common beliefs, with the exception of the former, as Dr. Wagner states, leaving lots of Jews killed in an Armageddon-like final war. The Hamas/Israel war seems to have left the laws or rules of war in a trash heap. That’s convervatively 2,000 years of thinking about what are just wars and just causes of war in that heap. That’s a lot of philosophy and theology to abandon. As a war resister, I don’t think the US will ever return to the level of skepticism about war and the preparations for war as was obvious during the Vietnam War. Many in Congress were sickened by the wars in Souteast Asia and wanted an end to those wars and it acted. Reagan began the long march to sanitize war and that was made worse by George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. Now, under Biden, war is all the rage and the weapons manufacturers love that. The present war in the Gaza Strip violates almost all rules of war including the rule of proportionality in war and the laws governing the treatment and murder of noncombatants in war. Unlike the Vietnam era, major media outlets here have fanned the flames of war.
Christian Petty-Zionists are the mightiest idiots on the planet. I was one of these people until the 1st Intifada when I watched 2 Israeli soldiers use rocks to break the shoulders of a Palestinian man for throwing stones. My relationship and support for Israel deteriorated after that.
This is yet another tragic crisis and genocide that makes the heart of any sane human being weep and be overcome with sadness. Thank you for focusing on this yet again, which is probably the most serious political and humanitarian disaster in 2023-2024.
Evangelicals are still charmed and connived into a continuation of defering to Israel's powers. From what I'm hearing in local Bible studies, etc. they've bought into the supposition that Israel's version of events on October 7 and what happened were so grissly to justify their slaughter of the Gaza residents. From Scofield and the dispensationalist theology which most real theologians regard as heresy, to Lindsay ("Late Great Planet Earth") to the modern versions of this corrupt theology of chaos that's frankly against sound reason, against sound theology, and every other humanitarian impulse, America has been plagued by these crazies and wackos. As my father used to say, "I'm not anti-semitic but I am anti-Israeli". I went to Israel in 1986, "the Holyland". It was a police state even then. I bicycled around the country which is quite small. From the Mediterranian to the sea of Galilee in one day on bike, easily. I stayed at hostels, $1000 including airfair and travel for one month. Teddy Kollek was still mayor of Jerusalem.
The reality is that the poor and powerless in Gaza and those who are standing for them have been continually attacked by the sharpest propagandists on conservative radio, the media in general with leading progressives and Democrats afraid to take a controversial stand.
I want to listen to this later, since I'm really curious about who the Christian Zionists are and what they're about and, especially, what their role is in the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
Thank you for the interview with Rev. Wagner. Israel is a racist, apartheid state which is committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza; the Biden administration is complicit in this atrocity--providing weapons, money and support to Israel, and refusing to call for a ceasefire. I am ashamed of my government and the many members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans--who have refused so far to call for a permanent ceasefire. Since when is a call for a ceasefire considered an example of antisemitism???
I have been playing the Ten Commandments against the Zionists as I call up radio talk shows. Yesterday, I doubled-down with Corporate Personhood.
The Pacifica station in Berkeley, KPFA had a show with Prof Joel Beinin as guest, and I got him to discuss if a Netanyahu contractor, Chevron, has to live up to the Ten Commandments.
Following is a link to the podcast, and my call starts at 45 minutes into the show.
Which world is Wagner on? Those so-called activists in Israel, on the streets against (sic) Bibi have now signed up for IOF/IDF NaziLandia.
And, so, every cent to Israel from Jews across U$A, Klanada, U-Inbred-Queendom, EuroTrashLandia, every single one states they are Jewish and alas, that means, dialing for Israel Dollars means they are Zionists.
You know that.
God, Christians for the most part are looney, have a hell of a "Discovery" tap dance of millions murdered around the world in the name of the "cross," so, forget about that CristoZioIsraelCrap.
Zionism is Jewish derived, and any dime to Israel is a Zionist Dime, even not in our name dumb as dirt USA taxpayer.
Oh, so, how many Jewish people do you know who fully support the end of Israel? Is that Country Called a Jewish Army up against the whole world? Being called into the world court for genocide prosecution by South Africa and then the Jewish State of Jewish Israel is actually revoking visas for ‘UN people’ because the whole UN is against it.
Chant, now: “Everybody's against us. Everybody's anti-Semitic.”
The long and rich history of the contemporary genocides of the cultured, cultivated Europeans, The Americans and the Brits., to nominate yet a few.
And first, of Washington's lost Ukrainian Proxy War to weaken Russia and pillage its resources, perhaps the greatest and most feckless imperial play, something of a progress update.
I cried today for the People of Palestine, for their grief and trauma. For whatever good that will do. I also cried for my fellow citizens, 70% of whom want the murder and destruction of Gaza to stop, yet are powerless to make that happen. Despite our ostensible democracy, our representative government, that has tragically been stolen from us. In that theft we lost our, the People’s, power over our own wealth and technology. Now we witness its use to pointlessly kill the innocent and the powerless. This theft by the super wealthy cannot be tolerated. It is evil and threatens our lives and our Children’s lives. The future demands that we must have a functional democracy, NOW! If we don’t fix this the next Gaza will be here, the next crushing of life and order will be here in the USA. And we will deserve it.
Christian Zionism and Zionism share many common beliefs, with the exception of the former, as Dr. Wagner states, leaving lots of Jews killed in an Armageddon-like final war. The Hamas/Israel war seems to have left the laws or rules of war in a trash heap. That’s convervatively 2,000 years of thinking about what are just wars and just causes of war in that heap. That’s a lot of philosophy and theology to abandon. As a war resister, I don’t think the US will ever return to the level of skepticism about war and the preparations for war as was obvious during the Vietnam War. Many in Congress were sickened by the wars in Souteast Asia and wanted an end to those wars and it acted. Reagan began the long march to sanitize war and that was made worse by George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. Now, under Biden, war is all the rage and the weapons manufacturers love that. The present war in the Gaza Strip violates almost all rules of war including the rule of proportionality in war and the laws governing the treatment and murder of noncombatants in war. Unlike the Vietnam era, major media outlets here have fanned the flames of war.
Christian Petty-Zionists are the mightiest idiots on the planet. I was one of these people until the 1st Intifada when I watched 2 Israeli soldiers use rocks to break the shoulders of a Palestinian man for throwing stones. My relationship and support for Israel deteriorated after that.
Get him on your show, Ralph: Palestinian Ambassador Majed Bamya: “What Do You Say on Behalf of a People Enduring Genocide?”
This is yet another tragic crisis and genocide that makes the heart of any sane human being weep and be overcome with sadness. Thank you for focusing on this yet again, which is probably the most serious political and humanitarian disaster in 2023-2024.
Evangelicals are still charmed and connived into a continuation of defering to Israel's powers. From what I'm hearing in local Bible studies, etc. they've bought into the supposition that Israel's version of events on October 7 and what happened were so grissly to justify their slaughter of the Gaza residents. From Scofield and the dispensationalist theology which most real theologians regard as heresy, to Lindsay ("Late Great Planet Earth") to the modern versions of this corrupt theology of chaos that's frankly against sound reason, against sound theology, and every other humanitarian impulse, America has been plagued by these crazies and wackos. As my father used to say, "I'm not anti-semitic but I am anti-Israeli". I went to Israel in 1986, "the Holyland". It was a police state even then. I bicycled around the country which is quite small. From the Mediterranian to the sea of Galilee in one day on bike, easily. I stayed at hostels, $1000 including airfair and travel for one month. Teddy Kollek was still mayor of Jerusalem.
The reality is that the poor and powerless in Gaza and those who are standing for them have been continually attacked by the sharpest propagandists on conservative radio, the media in general with leading progressives and Democrats afraid to take a controversial stand.
I want to listen to this later, since I'm really curious about who the Christian Zionists are and what they're about and, especially, what their role is in the ongoing genocide in Gaza.
Thank you for leaving comments open.
Thank you for the interview with Rev. Wagner. Israel is a racist, apartheid state which is committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza; the Biden administration is complicit in this atrocity--providing weapons, money and support to Israel, and refusing to call for a ceasefire. I am ashamed of my government and the many members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans--who have refused so far to call for a permanent ceasefire. Since when is a call for a ceasefire considered an example of antisemitism???
Hi Ralph,
I have been playing the Ten Commandments against the Zionists as I call up radio talk shows. Yesterday, I doubled-down with Corporate Personhood.
The Pacifica station in Berkeley, KPFA had a show with Prof Joel Beinin as guest, and I got him to discuss if a Netanyahu contractor, Chevron, has to live up to the Ten Commandments.
Following is a link to the podcast, and my call starts at 45 minutes into the show.
<https://kpfa.org/episode/sunday-show-december-31-2023/>
As the recorded slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza approach 30K, Israel's grissly butchery has no limits apparently: https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6063/Statistics-on-the-Israeli-attack-on-the-Gaza-Strip-%2807---27-December-2023%29
Here is Rev. Wagner's presentation at the National Press Club: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApbD9-fJFHk
Great episode as always.
Mailbag Question: Does Mr. Nader have an opinion on the work of John Rawls and his Theory of Justice?
Best,
Riley
Sad. Religion is a myth. It has never been proven. Everyone is brainwashed to believe what they want to believe.
Which world is Wagner on? Those so-called activists in Israel, on the streets against (sic) Bibi have now signed up for IOF/IDF NaziLandia.
And, so, every cent to Israel from Jews across U$A, Klanada, U-Inbred-Queendom, EuroTrashLandia, every single one states they are Jewish and alas, that means, dialing for Israel Dollars means they are Zionists.
You know that.
God, Christians for the most part are looney, have a hell of a "Discovery" tap dance of millions murdered around the world in the name of the "cross," so, forget about that CristoZioIsraelCrap.
Zionism is Jewish derived, and any dime to Israel is a Zionist Dime, even not in our name dumb as dirt USA taxpayer.
+--+
https://paulokirk.substack.com/p/jewish-zionism-is-nazism-palestinization
https://paulokirk.substack.com/p/one-major-cause-of-anti-semitism
Oh, so, how many Jewish people do you know who fully support the end of Israel? Is that Country Called a Jewish Army up against the whole world? Being called into the world court for genocide prosecution by South Africa and then the Jewish State of Jewish Israel is actually revoking visas for ‘UN people’ because the whole UN is against it.
Chant, now: “Everybody's against us. Everybody's anti-Semitic.”
The organization Robert is describing. Good activist site. Friends of Sabeel-North America. A Christian Voice for Palestine https://www.fosna.org
You deserve more reader comments, R.N.
On related themes . . .
The long and rich history of the contemporary genocides of the cultured, cultivated Europeans, The Americans and the Brits., to nominate yet a few.
And first, of Washington's lost Ukrainian Proxy War to weaken Russia and pillage its resources, perhaps the greatest and most feckless imperial play, something of a progress update.
https://les7eb.substack.com/p/genocide-and-economics
Free to subscribe . . . The Dead Do Not Die.
_____________
I cried today for the People of Palestine, for their grief and trauma. For whatever good that will do. I also cried for my fellow citizens, 70% of whom want the murder and destruction of Gaza to stop, yet are powerless to make that happen. Despite our ostensible democracy, our representative government, that has tragically been stolen from us. In that theft we lost our, the People’s, power over our own wealth and technology. Now we witness its use to pointlessly kill the innocent and the powerless. This theft by the super wealthy cannot be tolerated. It is evil and threatens our lives and our Children’s lives. The future demands that we must have a functional democracy, NOW! If we don’t fix this the next Gaza will be here, the next crushing of life and order will be here in the USA. And we will deserve it.