Ralph welcomes RJ Cross from USPIRG to discuss the Trouble in Toyland 2025 report. Then, Ralph speaks with truck safety activist Marianne Karth about the need for stronger truck safety regulation. Plus, the RNRH team has a spirited debate about spectator sports.
R.J. Cross is the Director of the Our Online Life program, Don’t Sell My Data campaign, and U.S. PIRG Education Fund. Her work as a writer and researcher ranges from the risks of commercialization of personal data, to consumer harms like scams and data breaches, to emerging threats from AI. In her work as a Policy Analyst at Frontier Group, she has authored research reports on government transparency, consumer debt and predatory auto lending, and has testified before Congress.
A lot of the toys we found either claim to be or are using one of OpenAI’s chatbots. Even though OpenAI has said that its products are not for kids under the age of 13—but they’re allowing their chatbots to be used in toys, which are products by definition for children. So there’s a real discrepancy here. OpenAI’s just not taking nearly as much responsibility for these failures as we think they should be. And then the toymakers are clearly just moving way too fast and really are not putting out products that are ready for primetime.
R.J. Cross
That’s what the attitude has been: we put it out, we watch what happens, and then we make adjustments as the public or as regulators demand it to happen. So I think that dynamic is terrible. I think it’s really harmful. We’d much rather we see the precautionary principle—which is where a company should take safety really, really seriously up front and do more holistic testing before it releases to the public. But so far, that’s not really the attitude you see, especially in Silicon Valley.
R.J. Cross
For as challenging as working with Congress is these days (and even as across the political spectrum it’s hard to find something to agree on) I think “AI-powered teddy bears should not talk to your kids about sex” has been very effective. Everyone can be on the same page about that, right? And so it’s been really fun to get to talk to all sorts of decisionmakers and media outlets, who—everyone wants to tell the same story that this is not okay and big tech isn’t taking safety seriously. Everyone agrees on that.
R.J. Cross
Marianne Karth graduated from the University of Michigan School of Public Health with an MPH in Health Behavior and Health Education in 1979. She worked for a variety of nonprofit organizations in program administration before raising and teaching her nine children at home. After losing two of her daughters in a car crash in 2013, Karth and her husband, Jerry Karth, became involved in advocacy for safer trucks and changes to truck underride regulations.
There’s often a “blame the victim” [narrative] that goes on and [policymakers] say it’s not their responsibility. And they’ll say it’s often the fault of the four-wheeler. They basically do not want to take responsibility for it. And part of the problem is that for underride protection, it’s not like crash-worthy features like seatbelts or airbags that are on the vehicle that’s being protected. It’s on the vehicle that we collide with. By the way, when an underride occurs, it cancels out all the effectiveness of all those crash-worthy features built into cars.
Marianne Karth
Underride deaths are very undercounted because there’s not even a checkbox in most state crash report forms for underride. So it’s very undercounted, but there are, at minimum, 600 per year. And this is a known, unreasonable risk. And engineers who love to solve problems—they’ve solved the problem. They know how to solve the problem. So it’s a preventable problem.
Marianne Karth
For years we’ve been urging our listeners to form these Congress watchdog groups. It can start small and build from a letterhead, really get the attention of their members, summon their members to town meetings created by the citizenry with their own agenda, and confront their Senators and Representatives directly… See what you can do in your congressional district. No one can stop you from doing that, for heaven’s sake. You always have to start the struggle for justice in ways that nobody can stop you.
Ralph Nader
